21 November 2006
Tony Blair welcomed Kazakh President Nursultan Nazarbayev to Number 10 today for talks.
Parts of this transcript may have been edited
Opening statements
Prime Minister:
Hello everyone. Can I welcome the President of Kazakhstan here to Downing Street and say how delighted we are to see you here today Sir, and this visit indicates the very strong relationship between the UK and Kazakhstan today. We have come a long way in these past few years since you were last here, I think in the year 2000, and this relationship is obviously about trade and energy where the UK is I think the second largest investor in Kazakhstan today. But it is about more than just investment in the energy sector. Increasingly we have strong relations for example in relation to the airlines, in relation to defence. The President was saying to me that there are 128, I think, different UK companies with various ventures in Kazakhstan today. We are looking now at how we co-operate on the financial service sector between the London Stock Exchange and Almaty. So there is a whole series of things that are happening from an economic perspective but are very, very important.
But in addition to this there are issues to do with our political relationship that put this right at the forefront of our policy today. Kazakhstan is in a very important part of the world today. I would like to pay tribute to the President’s leadership in Kazakhstan over the past few years. He has taken his country in a truly remarkable way from an economy, where, I think, some years back the GDP per head was around about $400 to, I think you were telling me, over $6,000 today, which is a massive change. And that has been done because Kazakhstan has been open to foreign investment, because it has developed also a very good way of working between people of different faiths, I mean many of different faiths are represented in Kazakhstan. So there are lessons I think for the region and the wider world in what has happened in Kazakhstan, we thank you for the work and cooperation we do together in Iraq for example.
And it is also the case that the European relationship with Kazakhstan is going to be more and more important today also and we support the Kazakhstan move towards the WTO as well, which is again a very important issue. But most of all, Mr President, we celebrate today the fact that the British-Kazakhstan relationship is so strong, that is in part because you have worked at it very strongly, and we are delighted to have you here today, it is an honour for us and a privilege and thank you very much for all that you are doing to make sure that that relationship, strong as it is, becomes stronger still.
Mr Nazarbayev:
Mr Prime Minister, Ladies and Gentlemen, I would like to thank you Prime Minister for the words you have just spoken, for the short overview of the relationship between the UK and Kazakhstan over the last few years. In that short period of time you explained very well everything that we have achieved together over that period. I would just like to recall that on 16 December 1991 we declared ourselves to be an independent state, a new state appeared on the map of the world - Kazakhstan. The UK recognised us within three days after that and our people will never forget that fact. Since then our relations have developed in a very stable way. As of today the UK is the second largest investor after the United States in Kazakhstan. UK companies have invested around $8 billion in Kazakhstan and this development has been so active that as of today on the London Stock Exchange there are four Kazakh companies whose shares are traded, amongst them there is a copper company which is a member of the FTSE 100, ie one of the hundred largest companies listed here. We also have our gold company and one of our oil and gas companies listed here, and one Kazakh private bank. Tomorrow I am going to be the whole day in the City of London. There will be a joint economic forum taking place there. A large group of Kazakhstan businessmen have come here with me and they have come here to develop their relationships as well.
Today the Prime Minister and I spoke about regional security issues. You are of course very well aware that Kazakhstan is located inbetween China, Russia and the Islamic world. We are a country endowed with major resources, major reserves of oil, gas and precious metals, we are also a major food producer, all of these being commodities we seek to export on the external markets. The UK is one of our major trading partners in this respect.
Today when Kazakhstan has become very much the leader of economic reform in its region and a recognised country with a recognised open market, the World Bank has stated that Kazakhstan is one of the 20 most interesting locations for investment in the world. And we have set ourselves the task of becoming one of the 50 most developed nations in the entire world. In that respect the support we get from the UK, the entry of UK small and medium enterprises into our economy, not just in the oil and gas sector, is very important. It is also very important that we cooperate with the UK in terms of regional security. You will be aware that both Afghanistan and Iran, Iraq are located very close to our territory. With Iran we share a border across the Caspian Sea. This all testifies to the fact that no single state is capable of solving these problems in isolation on their own. I think it is absolutely correct that the work we are doing within the anti-terrorist coalition in Afghanistan, we need to take that work to its conclusion, the same in Iraq. Kazakhstan to the extent possible is contributing to that and is supporting those efforts in Iraq which are aimed as we know at ensuring peace and stability for all our states, including ours.
Thank you.
Question and Answer session
Question:
Mr President, can you tell us firstly if you think the west has handled the broad issues in the Middle East well or badly, particularly in terms of the invasion of Iraq and its aftermath? And can you tell us also how you react to the fact that the people of Britain know very little about your country other than what they think they have picked up from seeing the film Borat. Do you think it is part of your mission in this country to counter the impression of Kazakhstan formed in many people’s minds, and if so how do you do it, and do you think is it something you discussed with the Prime Minister?
Mr Nazarbayev:
Well I will perhaps start with one of the last questions that you put. We are indeed concerned that Kazakhstan is not a very well recognised country in Europe, although we have tried to make ourselves more recognised. When people talk about Kazakhstan people still have this impression that it is somehow part of the Soviet Union or part of Russia, sometimes people get us mixed up with Kurdistan or Afghanistan or somewhere else. And we see that people who don’t understand geography very well may get us mixed up with some other place. But Kazakhstan, as I have said, is an independent member of the international community and we have many features which distinguish us from other parts of the world. The Prime Minister today quoted the figure that when we began with a situation in 1999 where we had a GDP at the level of $400, we are up to a level of over $6,000 per person in Kazakhstan. The material wellbeing of the population in Kazakhstan is higher than any other part of the former Soviet Union. We have attracted over $50 billion worth of external foreign investment, $75 billion worth of internal investment. In the ’90s when we created our own foreign currency, the Tengiz, it is printed by De La Rue in London, our task was to have a gold currency reserve enough to cover three months worth of imports, and we couldn’t find enough money for that at the time in order to get the currency printed. Now we have gold currency reserves of $25 billion. Kazakhstan has created an oil stabilisation fund and using the money from that fund we are diversifying our economic base. The fact that we are still a little known country is bad, it is bad because Kazakhstan, together with Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan are the kind of states that can become alternative suppliers of energy to European markets in future, therefore 25 countries, members of the European Union, and Kazakhstan, also together with Russia, we must not forget that, we need to be together, we need to discuss things together and work together. Therefore we have tried to make Kazakhstan a better known country for people outside of our country.
Secondly, if there were no anti-terrorist coalition in Afghanistan then we today would have on our hands a powerful source for the creation of a terrorist threat to the whole world in that country. Of course it is not perfect in that country now, it is still not stable there and of course there is a desire to achieve quick results which couldn’t be fulfilled, it was impossible. The production of narcotics in Afghanistan is increasing year on year, drug trafficking is coming through our country, through Europe as well, and record levels of drugs are being produced this very year. So the whole territory effectively of Afghanistan is not controlled by the central government. Mr Prime Minister has just come back from that country, I am sure he knows this very well and can speak about this as well. We are very much their neighbours, we know this situation extremely well. We understand that until the central government controls its entire territory in Afghanistan and until they introduce proper order in the provinces, the bandit groupings in the Taliban will continue to call the tune and that is what is happening there.
As regards the problem of Iraq, I can set out the Kazakh position, the Kazakhstan position. From the very beginning we considered that all the nuances, all the difficulties of that problem were not taken into account, ie how to solve the problems of Iraq. Now we are at the stage where people are calling for the troops to withdraw, to leave Iraq on its own. If that happens then there will be a massive civil war in Iraq and the country will divide into three portions, everyone knows that, you would have the Kurds separately in the north, the Shias and the Sunnis, the Kurdish state would be strongly opposed by the Turks and between the Shias and the Sunnis you would see an enormous confrontation. So then what would we have? We would have a second Afghanistan on my hands. So we could argue a lot about why we went in, why we shouldn’t have gone in, but we know that given this situation we now need to see the thing through to the end, that is the main thing. And whatever happens, whatever may be, Kazakhstan will do whatever it can to help support the economic restoration of Afghanistan, we are providing support for that, we also have a sapper engineer team in Iraq, where they have an enormous problem of unexploded mines which is affecting the civilian population.
As regarding the last question, the film, maybe the journalist himself, Mr Borat Sagdiyev is here representing Kazakhstan. I would very much like to speak to him if he is. But firstly this film was created by a comedian so let’s laugh at it, that is my attitude. Secondly, it is well known that Mr Sasha Baron Cohen has never been to Kazakhstan, the film wasn’t made in Kazakhstan, it was filmed in an impoverished part of Romania in the countryside. The role of Kazakhs there is played by impoverished gypsies in that part of the world, and the role of a drunken Kazakh was played by an American student, I believe, in the film, and all of them I think are now taking him to court and so he is now going through the courts. But there is a positive side of all this: there is a saying that any publicity is good publicity. I think the very fact that you have put that question you will now want to learn more and maybe come to Kazakhstan to see for yourself, and I invite you to do so.
Question:
… in the region and how do you value the visit of the President of Kazakhstan?
Prime Minister:
I think the role of Kazakhstan is increasingly important because it demonstrates first that you have a country that by being prepared to open up its economy has achieved significant economic advance, and that is an important lesson. And secondly, you have many different ethnic and religious groupings and they are living together, and Kazakhstan is making progress as a whole as a country and that is an important lesson as well. And particularly in this region we need stable partners and I think there is a whole new and different relationship that Europe should have with Kazakhstan where we recognise that strategic importance of Kazakhstan and I would like to see Britain be a leading partner of Kazakhstan in that endeavour, not just as I say for trade and economic reasons but for political reasons too.
Question:
Could I ask you both questions about Kazakhstan’s neighbours? First of all your response to the diplomatic moves involving Syria, Iran and Iraq and whether you think that is a very swift response to the Prime Minister’s speech last week, the British Prime Minister’s speech that is? And secondly on the question of Russia, how concerned you are that Russia is reverting, as perhaps illustrated by the London poisoning this week and also the fears that Russia will use the energy weapon quite possibly against Britain and western Europe?
Prime Minister:
Well first of all let me respond on the first part of the question. I welcome the fact that the Syrian Foreign Minister went to Iraq. The relationship in my view with Syria is not necessarily, and the interests are not necessarily the same as the relationship with Iran, and the very thing that we have been seeking is to ensure that Syria becomes of help to Iraq in its process of progress and overcoming its challenges and difficulties at the moment rather than a hindrance to that. So from our perspective this is the right thing to do, it is an indication of the potential for a different relationship. We have now however got other issues that we need to explore and discuss in relation to Palestine and the wider Middle East, and all of that is important to do. But all the way through, as I have said not just in my speech but in actually going back to what I said in Los Angeles a few months ago is there is a strategic choice that every country in the region must make - are they going to be on the side of economic progress, an end to sectarianism, people living together with common rules and a common sense of responsibility, or not? And the interesting thing about a country like Kazakhstan, they are in one of the most difficult regions in the world, is that it has made its strategic choice and that strategic choice I think is of importance and benefit not just to Kazakhstan but to the region as a whole. But just to emphasise again, in my view what has happened in relation to Syria, that is you roll them all up, Syria and Iran, it is not necessarily like that at all.
Mr Nazarbayev:
(Not interpreted)
Question:
Yes, both on Russia and Syria and Iran and Iraq.
Mr Nazarbayev:
Well on the first part of the question I think I have already stated my opinion. It is difficult for me to speak on behalf of another country here, all the more so Russia. As regards whether Russia has got cooler or not, I think there are some people who want to do everything possible that things should get cooler and cooler, I don’t know. But the Prime Minister and I discussed this subject today and what we agreed on is it is very important to use the opportunities and potential that Russia has in regard to the peace process in the Middle East region together. And of course the key to all these problems, as we know, is the Israel-Palestine conflict, that is the real kernel of the whole problem, until we resolve that fundamental issue it is going to be very difficult to speak about a genuinely comprehensive peace settlement in the wider region. And as regards that issue and as regards the Iraq situation, the Iraqi people are suffering more than any other people in the world and we need to help them, and I think the participation of Russia in that process is very important. The EU, the UK and the US need to do everything in my view to ensure that Russia is together with us all in solving these very important issues for all of us. On the other hand we are always discussing of course the Iran situation, the nuclear situation in Iran. Let me say here that we in Kazakhstan have good relations with Iran, we have a border with them across the Caspian Sea, the main argument I use when I talk to them is this, that Kazakhstan had the largest nuclear testing site in the world in the past. When the USSR collapsed, Kazakhstan had the fourth largest nuclear arsenal in the world, 1,100 intercontinental ballistic nuclear rockets were at our disposal.
We found within ourselves the strength to turn our back on that, to say no to that. We understood that that would not ensure our security, that we needed on the contrary to become a member of the international community, to become a respected state. And having received guarantees for territorial integrity and for our independence, and negative guarantees on non-aggression from the major powers, first and foremost the US, the UK and Russia, we were able to free ourselves from this burden of a nuclear arsenal and I can tell you that we have become no less secure from getting rid of them, we have on the contrary untied our hands and allowed ourselves to develop and now you see the result, you see the wellbeing of our people. That is what I say to the Iranians. On the other hand we have to be fair to them at the same time, why can other states have such an arsenal, why do other states gain the possibility to develop nuclear weapons, why is the non-proliferation regime in essence unfair? The great powers state that they also strive to reduce their nuclear arsenals, but to those who don’t have nuclear weapons they say no you cannot obtain a nuclear arsenal at all. Maybe that is not quite right. Israel, as people say already has such an arsenal, why does nobody raise that issue, why don’t we discuss that as well? Therefore when we discuss one side of this problem I think we need to discuss the other side as well because it would be very sad if the international community were to prove to be unable to harness and rein in the process of proliferation, this would be very dangerous for us all in the long term. What that could lead to, none of us can say exactly.
Question:
My question is to Tony Blair. What areas of military cooperation do you find to develop most between our countries?
Prime Minister:
Military cooperation you mean?
Question:
Yes.
Prime Minister:
Well obviously it is important what we are doing together in Iraq, but also the relationship that Kazakhstan and the UK has across the international institutions is very important. And I think that our defence cooperation is one part of making sure that it is not just a relationship that is about trade and the economy, though I emphasise the importance of that, but it is also a political relationship as well. So I can see in respect of defence that our two countries again move closer together.
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