27 April 2007
The PM met with Poland’s President Lech Kaczynski today for talks on the future of Europe.
Speaking afterwards the PM said Poland was a "very strong and capable partner inside the EU" and that both nations held similar views on the way forward for the EU Constitutional Treaty.
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Mr Kaczynski:
Distinguished Prime Minister, Ladies and Gentlemen. First and foremost I wish to express my satisfaction with this opportunity to meet Prime Minister Blair here in Warsaw. We are discussing, and we will be discussing the subjects of interest to the two sides, and since we both belong to the European Union the issue of the Constitutional Treaty is of paramount importance, and in this respect our views are very convergent. I think that in the next session that we will have, we will also look at other issues. What we have already discussed is the future shape of the Constitutional Treaty, or the treaty which may … some other name, but which will be a basic treaty for the European Union. We spoke about the concept that exists in this respect and about the pace of work. What Prime Minister Blair told me was very comforting and bracing about the prospects that are in store for us in this respect and we hope that they will be all realised, together with new political facts such as the swearing into office of the new President of the French Republic. It is now only six weeks left until the end of the German Presidency, and I hope that it will be a very productive, creative period of time and it will help to shape such a constitutional treaty that will take into account divergent views of the various states and will be palatable to all, palatable to all governments, to all parliaments, and in some countries, when it is necessary, also acceptable in their referendums.
Well I wish to thank Prime Minister Blair for this part of our discussion, this was a very interesting meeting, thank you. Thank you very much Prime Minister, over to you.
Prime Minister:
First of all Mr President thank you very much for welcoming me here in Poland today and I am delighted to come and see yet again what enormous progress Poland is making. It is now not just a very strong and capable partner inside the European Union, but also a very strong, loyal and courageous ally in NATO, and working alongside British forces in Afghanistan and in Iraq and I would like to pay tribute to the leadership that the President has shown in these very difficult times.
And as you rightly say Mr President, we had a good and interesting conversation about the way forward on the European Constitutional Treaty. I think the basic concept that Poland and Britain have are very much held in common between our two countries. We both want a Europe that is effective, that is practical, but a Europe that is one of sovereign and independent states collaborating and working together.
In addition to this I have no doubt we will have the opportunity also of discussing over lunch many of the other international issues.
So once again Mr President, thank you very much for hosting me here today in Warsaw. It is a great pleasure to be with you. And if I may also congratulate Poland on its recent successful bid to host the European football competition, it is excellent, and I am sure you will do a fantastic job.
Question:
Mr Blair, we are very intrigued by this document you have sent to the Parliamentary Labour Party. I am wondering if this is your legacy as you would like to leave it, why have you sent it now and is it some indication of when you might be making the announcement of when you are going to step down? I wonder if you would care to give me the scoop of the century so far and tell me when you are going to step down. Will it be next week?
Prime Minister:
I would absolutely love to give you the scoop of the century, I mean there is nobody who deserves it more. But I am afraid the answer is no. In relation to the document, we are coming up to the tenth anniversary of the election of my government and therefore it is a very suitable time to take a step back, look back over the last ten years, see the strength of the economy, the investment in the National Health Service and education, the improvements that have been made, and also the challenges that lie ahead. So it is for no more fundamental or subtle or sophisticated reason than that, we are coming up to the ten year anniversary, it seems like a good thing to do to mark the ten years.
Question:
Will there definitely be no announcement from you before next Thursday’s local elections?
Prime Minister:
Well you know I never discuss these issues at all, but I wouldn’t hold your breath on that particular theory.
Question:
Russia was very severe in her criticism of the American plans of launching missile defence systems in Poland and the Czech Republic. Does the United Kingdom - this is a question to Prime Minister Blair - share the views or invite this project of … systems is a danger to Europe. Could President Lech Kaczynski also comment on this and speak about the Russian renouncement or withdrawal from the Conventional Weapons Treaty?
Prime Minister:
I think this is a programme that has been well explained over quite a few years. The Ballistic Missile Defence Programme of the United States has been something that over the past few years has been explored and explained a number of times. And the simple point is this: that in a world in which there are new states trying to acquire a nuclear weapons capability, and when some of those states let us say have been in breach of their international obligations in respect of nuclear weapons capability, then it is not surprising that ballistic missile defence is on the agenda. And I am absolutely sure myself that this is not in any shape or form aimed at Russia. I think it is more to do with the concern over as I say those states that are trying to acquire nuclear weapons capability.
Question:
Mr President, well … period of time over the last six months or so and we have seen a series of nervous reactions from our eastern … stretch of borders that we have with Russia at present … in the north, but anyway our eastern neighbour. And it is obvious, as the Prime Minister has just mentioned, that the lesson … would be a protection mechanism .. by the very nature of things, the defenceless installation, it is not targeting anyone but it is related to the risks that the Prime Minister has just described. There are countries, whether we like to mention them or not, there are countries closer to Europe, or distant to Europe, which are either equipped with nuclear weapons or make it obvious that they want to develop their nuclear potential, whether they are capable of making use of their nuclear potential.
Mr Kaczynski:
Well this is not for me to decide, but to my mind there is … to this question, so that is the purpose of the venture. I think that the President and the government of the Russian Federation realise this fact full well, but I think that there are also some other issues at stake here, that maybe … or participation, because I think that the genuine motives are quite different from the apparent, and certainly the anti-missile defence has nothing to do with any threat to the territory of the entire Russian Federation. I am sure of that.
Question:
This is a question for Prime Minister Blair. How successful do you think you will be or can be in persuading the Poles to sign up to your vision of an amending treaty? And briefly can I ask you if you are disappointed with the judgment on the two Libyan terrorist suspects in London today?
Prime Minister:
First of all I think all of us want to see a Europe that is effective at tackling the challenges of the European Union - globalisation, jobs, energy security, immigration, organised crime. And we need for a Europe of 27, and in time to become more countries, to have clear effective rules for European action. But there is a reality after the French and Dutch referendums which is that it is not possible to bring back the Constitutional Treaty. So I think those of us who are in favour of Europe, who want a strong Europe capable of action, who want to get this issue resolved so that we can then focus on those … questions. Now actually the President and myself, and the Prime Minister, had discussions on these questions. I think the basic approach of Poland and the UK is pretty similar and I believe it is possible that we can come to an agreement, but as the President was pointing out there are still obviously many issues that have to be resolved, and we will take forward those discussions with our strong allies in the European Union. And I have been really grateful of the opportunity of coming and having this conversation with the President and the Prime Minister today.
In respect of the judgment you referred to, we are going to consider now what our options are, including obviously options in respect of appealing that judgment, and all I would emphasise yet again is this: that in order to be able to send out a really strong signal that people who come into our country in order to incite terrorism or engage in terrorism, in order to be able to give a strong signal that those people cannot get away with what they want to do, we have to be able to deport people and send them back to their own country. And it is very hard for someone in my position who is charged with the responsibility of trying to protect our country’s security to be told that if there were doubts raised about the political system of the countries from which these people come, I can’t return them to that country when they are a menace and a threat to people in this country. So we will obviously study the judgment very carefully and look at our rights of appeal, but my primary responsibility as Prime Minister, and the responsibility of any Prime Minister of our country, is to try to protect our people first.
Question:
A question to Prime Minister Blair. I wanted to make a reference to what my colleague from Sky News asked you about. Is this a kind of tour of Europe that you are making now? And to President Kaczynski the following question, did Prime Minister Blair persuade you about the … needs rather than a treaty. constitution?
Prime Minister:
The answer to that question is no. I am getting on with the job, and that is the most important thing. And part of that job is to try and make sure that we resolve this issue over the European Constitutional Treaty because it is important for Europe to move forward and prosper. And actually you can see from both our countries today, we share a very similar outlook, we actually have a very close alliance together. We believe in Europe. Britain believes in Europe, Poland believes in Europe, and in my view it is easier to make the case for our people when it is a Europe that is not arguing about things that are remote from people in the street, who are arguing about issues such as jobs and immigration, crime and issues, like energy, as I was saying a moment or two ago, that are absolutely vital for our citizens. When we are debating those issues people feel Europe is on their side. When we end up with years and years of quite abstract constitutional debate then I think people don’t feel that Europe is really in a place where they want us to be. And that is why I see no conflict between having our position and attitude towards Europe and being strongly in favour of Europe.
Mr Kaczynski:
Well I remember when many years ago I met Prime Minister Thatcher for the very first time and she was persuaded about the merits of the market economy in Poland … And the Prime Minister has said now that there is no preaching to the converted, so the Prime Minister didn’t have to preach to me. Poland really realises … no matter how we are going to turn the document if one wants to turn it into a constitution, it is all right. I know there are countries which want to have a constitution, but there are also countries which say no, we don’t need another constitution because we have one in place in our home country. So we simply show great flexibility in this respect, whether it is as the Prime Minister put it briefly, a kind of a needs plus or a constitution minus. It is of minor importance, it is the content that is … importance to us. I told Chancellor Merkel that we can agree to work on the basis of a text that has been crafted until now and we can continue to do so, no problem. The problem is the final result, the final outcome. So if we meet here in three years time, will we be speaking on behalf of the United Kingdom and the Republic of Poland as states in a very close union of independence, or will our capacities be different, will we be just heads of national administrations within some larger multinational creation which is a kind of a state, not being a state at the same time? So this is the question. And I want to confirm what the Prime Minister has just mentioned, that we are in favour of the European Union, we believe that the … results in Poland for the last three years speak volumes about the benefits of the European Union which is a … arrangement, unprecedented in history. And I am just repeating myself because I have been saying many times before as the President of Poland.